The North East has really been killing hoppy beers the last few years. Alchemist and Hill Farmstead started the trend, but newer breweries brewing wonderfully hoppy things include: Trillium, Tree House, Tired Hands, Other Half, and Fiddlehead. What unites them is a bit more yeast character than indistinct Cal/American ale, a wonderfully juicy/fruity/saturated aroma, soft mouthfeel, balanced bitterness, and less than spectacular clarity. A big change from what East Coast IPA meant five years ago: a malty IPA somewhere between American and English IPA.
For yeast, I selected Wyeast 1318 London III (alleged to be from Boddington’s). Not exactly the first strain you’d think of for an American IPA, but my friend Sean had good luck with it and it has been rumored to be the house strain at a hop-specialist brewery. If you are fermenting with WY1318, make sure you use a blow-off; I had never had to worry about 5.5 gallons of mid-gravity beer in an 8 gallon fermentor before!
I included flaked corn (because I had it sitting around) and wheat in the mash. These two adjuncts work counter, with the corn diluting the protein content of the wort while the wheat increases it. I’d read (somewhere) that the proteins in wheat flour are especially foam-positive even compared to flaked wheat, so I wanted to give it a try. I mixed the flour into the milled grain to distribute it, but even at this relatively low amount (half a pound in 10 gallons) the lauter was slower than I’m accustomed to.
The end of the boil brought on big dose of hops (Galaxy and Simcoe), allowing them to steep in the hot wort before chilling. The more hops added to the beer on the hot-side, the more of their water-soluble compounds (like glycosides) the yeast will be able to interact with. I added the first dose of dry hops midway through fermentation, again to allow more yeast-hop interactions. As a side-note, always smell each bag of hops before adding them to the beer; I had to throw away an ounce of Galaxy while brewing and dry hopping because they smelled less than fresh compared to the other packets.
The second half of this batch (pulled before the bittering hops) is well on its way to being an apricot sour – but more about that next week!
Soft and Juicy IPAAppearance – The draft pour is more hefeweizen or wit than IPA (even extra-hoppy IPA). Translucent peach, I can barely make out my fingers on the opposite side of the glass. Cloudy/hazy side of muddy, but just barely (and this is after a few weeks in the keg!). A few flecks of hop matter in suspension. Pillowy white head, with unremarkable retention.
Smell – Juicy hops, mission accomplished! The Simcoe in the keg provides some hints of resiny pine, but the overwhelming impression is that of freshly squeezed grapefruit and mango. Everything a hoppy beer ought to be: bright, fresh, and vibrant. As I reach the bottom of the glass, just a hint of fresh grain.
Taste – Revitalizing nectar! Juicy ripe citrus and stone fruit. The bitterness is restrained, but present. The finish is long and slightly resiny compared to the front/mid palate. No weird yeastiness, and no alcohol hotness.
Mouthfeel – It has that softness of some of my favorite IPAs. It isn’t sharp at all thanks to the yeast, wheat, and chloride. Could be slightly fuller, especially in the finish. No corn next time?
Drinkability & Notes – Not sure if it was the yeast or the wheat that turned this into one of my cloudier batches. Despite that, one of a string of excellent mid-gravity hoppy beers. I’m not sure why I ever brew DIPAs? I’ll be trying WY1318 again without the flour to see if it really is that un-flocculant.
Soft and Juicy IPA
Recipe Specifics
--------------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.25
Anticipated OG: 1.058
Anticipated SRM: 3.7
Anticipated IBU: 57.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Grain
------
81.6% - 10.00 lbs. Rahr 2-Row Brewers Malt
8.2% - 1.00 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize)
6.1% - 0.75 lbs. Weyermann CaraFoam
2.0% - 0.25 lbs. Weyermann Acidulated Malt
2.0% - 0.25 lbs. King Arthur All Purpose Flour
Hops
------
1.38 oz. Magnum (Pellet, 11.50% AA) @ 60 min.
2.00 oz. Simcoe (Pellet, 14.00% AA) @ 0 min.
2.00 oz. Galaxy (Pellet, 12.00% AA) @ 0 min.
3.00 oz. Galaxy (Pellet, 12.00% AA) Dry Hop Primary
3.00 oz. Simcoe (Whole, 14.00% AA) Keg Hop
Extras
-------
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 8 min.
0.50 Whirlfloc @ 8 min.
Yeast
------
WYeast 1318 London Ale III
Water Profile
-------------
Profile: Washington, Hoppy
Mash Schedule
-----------------
Sacch Rest - 30 min @ 154F
Notes
-------
5/23/15 - 2 L stir-plate starter with a 3 month old Wyeast pack of 1318.
Brewed 5/24/15
Note: this recipe was actually double everything listed, half was run off after 30 minutes for souring.
Mash was 3 gallons of distilled, plus 4.25 filtered DC tap. 2 tsp of 10% phosphoric acid. 6 g each CaCl and Gypsum. Mash pH = 5.33 after 5 minutes of recirculation. 1 gallon of distilled added as a cold sparge. 120 PPM chloride and 140 PPM sulfate, including mash and sparge water.
Collected 6.5 gallons of 1.045 runnings. Boiled 30 minutes without hops. Topped off the boil with 3/4 gallon of filtered tap water.
Added flame-out hops. Whirpooled for 5 minutes, settled for 25. Down to 170F naturally. Thanks to warm-weather ground water only able to chill to 72F. Left at 62F to chill for five hours before pitching.
5/27/15 Added the 3 oz of Galaxy dry hops. Warmed to 66F to encourage fermentation to finish strong.
6/4/15 Kegged with 3 oz of whole Simcoe. Still very cloudy. Right into the fridge. FG 1.013.
Can you explain why you used the lacto and ECY Dirty Dozen?
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of using Saf-4 rather than 1318?
Those starters were for the other half, the apricot sour. I missed that mention when I was cleaning up the recipe, and scaling the malt and water adjustments. Fixed now!
Deletelove those less bitter e more hoppy ipa's ! wonder how sparging with cold water affect !!
ReplyDeletewhat are your impressions on using british yeast for american ipa ?
Cold water sparge is just for ease of brewing on my system. Kai found it didn't reduce efficiency by much (about 1%).
DeleteI like a fruitier yeast in hoppy beers. Makes them taste more like a beer, rather than a raw hop extract. Personal preference etc.
What temp did you ferment at?
ReplyDelete62F ambient for the first few days, then up to 66F once fermentation stayed to slow. Finally 68F to make sure it was done.
DeleteWhy do you leave the steeping hops off the ibu calculation? I've been trying to figure out how these effect bitterness and just have been using beersmith set to 30 minute steep. I'm curious what or how you estimate the bitterness these additions contribute and the right balance for something like this. <30 IBUs can't be right I'm assuming.
ReplyDeleteThe temperature drops so quickly that I don't think there is a huge amount of isomerization. We really had to tweak scaling up recipes for Modern Times, 60 minutes and still at 210F does extract lots of bitterness! I'd guess mine are more like 5-10 addition equivalent. Not a big deal in an IPA (bigger consideration in a more delicate recipe).
DeleteI'm a fan of 1318 and usually use it for Special Bitters and English stouts. Your fermentation sounds very different from what I've observed with that yeast. Usually, it's a thick, whipped cream cheese consistency krausen an inch or two thick. it's frequently persistent, to the point where the beer finishes and drops clear with the krausen intact. Never had blow off or clarity issues.
ReplyDeleteMust have been the wheat, 1318 typically drops and clears fast; I use it my English and American IPA'S and it is a wonderful strain, that allows a quick turn around. Love the fruit character that it provides without dominating the beer....that is if you keep the temp down on it.
DeleteThanks for your inclusion of mash PH in this recipe. Also, wow - I'm impressed by how much CaCl you used. Can you please provide the end values (post-additions) for your water make up for this beer.
ReplyDeleteFixed it, that was the amount for the whole 11 gallon batch!
DeleteAlso, what has been your experience with dry hopping into the keg pre-carbonation? I'm always a bit worried about grassy, older hop aromas having the leaf/whole hops in there for more than 5 days.
ReplyDeleteCold and whole, I've never had an issue. Plenty of other brewers agree, give it a shot!
Deletehttp://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/08/perfecting-already-good-recipes-and.html
ReplyDeleteSeems appropriate regarding the yeast selection.
Have you thought about using a yeast specifically high in beta glucosaide during the dry hop?
ReplyDeleteFor my current batch, I'm going to rack off to the secondary, with my dry hops (Citra, Mosiac, and Amarillo) with a bit of sugar and QA-23, a wine yeast. I'm hoping the yeast will free up the aromatic compounds, dry out the beer, and scavenge oxygen from the dry hop.
I wonder how active a wine yeast would be, most are pretty poor at fermenting maltose and maltotriose. I've considered the straight enzyme route...
DeleteThat's why I was going to give it some simple sugar too, so it can get active. Straight enzyme would be interesting, but I don't think my local homebrew store would carry it. I'm lucky enough 1/2 had the QA-23.
DeleteI'm trying to use a water chemistry calculator for DC and had a question about DC's water report. They list alkalinity(62ppm) and calcium hardness(91ppm). Which number should I enter into the alkalinity field in a water chemistry calculator?
ReplyDeleteEither works, just depends on what the calculator is looking for in its calculations. I use 78 ppm carbonate for DC, it's what ProMash spit out.
DeleteVery interested to hear how it turns out!
ReplyDeleteSo you boiled the whole batch for 30 minutes, drew off half of it to sour and then continued boiling the remaining wort for an hour with your regular hop additions? I'm curious how you chilled the portion you were going to sour.
ReplyDeleteCorrect. Ran the wort through my plate chiller, pretty fast because I wanted to pitch the Lacto close to 100F.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you make the sour mash?
DeleteCurious what gravity you were at when you added your first dry hop?
ReplyDeleteWhat is your method for such a large dryhop? If I did 3oz in a carboy, it would be 1.5oz on top of the beer, and 1.5oz sitting dry on top of the first 1.5oz.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the philosophy for the flower addition?
ReplyDeleteMatt: I didn't take a gravity reading when I added the hops, I'd target ~75% of your target attenuation.
ReplyDeleteJoe: Whole hops or pellets? I add pellets directly (like this one), but I'd bag whole hops for the same reason.
Andrew: Beyond what I mentioned in the post?
Mike,
ReplyDeleteIn the recipe section on 5/27/15 you said you warmed the beer to 66f to encourage the beer to finish. Did you ferment at 62f up until that day?
Correct, 62F ambient for the first few days, then up to 66F.
ReplyDeleteGreat post Mike, nice follow up to your article in BYO. Curious on your thoughts on Conan verse 1318 in hoppy beers? Any guess on the yeast Trillium is using, I love their yeast character.
ReplyDeleteI've brewed about 7 or so single hop pales with this yeast. Using open FV's, top cropping and bottle conditioning. FWH, steeps and dry hops only. Mashed at 68C and fermented at 18C. FG's around 1.012. Chloride 120 Sulphate 180.
ReplyDeleteIME the beers cleared fine. Slight residual sweetness in the form of a mild toffee type flavour and smell, not unpleasant but found I had to up the IBU's to compensate. Compared to Chico the yeast is def more malt forward, beers feel lighter and a little thinner and the hops were hidden substantially.
The one that really worked amazingly however was re pitch number 5 with Mosaic. Sweet dank piney berries all the way! A shockingly good beer in the mould of 'holy crap...that stinks real good'!
Anyway...I haven't given up with the yeast...just have more success mashin high, using oats and keeping the water profile with Chico.
Did you get any residual sweetness that seems greater than the FG would infer?
My hunch is the classic English open FV and bottle conditionin route brings out the malt character more and aids with the clarity...
Thoughts?
At the time the FV's were 230 litres to the brim filled to 160litres. Every brew that monster Krausen would pick a fight with the lid! Amazing yeast in that respect and by far and away the best smelling fermentations I've ever witnessed.
ReplyDeleteWhen Conan is right and it gives a bit stone-fruit aroma I'm a fan. I didn't have great luck getting either the ECY/TYB strains to attenuate like I wanted though. Can't say I prefer one over the other, both add something pleasant to hoppy beers that you can't get from a clean yeast. Not sure what Trillium uses.
ReplyDeleteI don't find this beer very sweet at all. Did you have any caramel malt in there? Toffee isn't a flavor I've ever associated with yeast. Not sure on the clarity differences, I'm sure the hops in the keg didn't help. Pressure can certainly have an influence on flocculation characteristics.
I think I was going with 5% Fawcett Caramalt (20-25ebc) at the time. The beers themselves were about 9 EBC.
ReplyDeleteInteresting regarding the sweetness or lack thereof for you. From my experience the sweetness belied the FG quite considerably.
I can feel a Chico, 1318 and Conan 'yeast off' coming on!
Would you say 1318 is 'THE' yeast Hill Farmstead, Tired Hands, Treehouse and Lawson's Finest are using?
ReplyDeleteIf they are using it I wonder how they go about taming it! I can imagine it may well be challenging to bottom crop this yeast in a conical.
If brewing again, would you change anything in the water profile and or grains/adjuncts?
ReplyDeleteCould you point me to the Kai info on cold water sparging efficiency? I had never heard that and it would be very interesting to me given my current setup. as always, thanks! FWIW, tree house claims to use a clean american strain, as does MBC and wormtown.
ReplyDeleteThis certainly isn't the yeast that all (or necessarily any) of those breweries are using. Here's an IPA recipe from Tree House's Nate Lanier that calls for American ale yeast. I've also read some people suggest that Tired Hands uses S-04. I take these sorts of suggestions as inspiration, I don't really care what they're actually using if I find something that works for me!
ReplyDeleteIt may be that by repitching 1318 a few times it becomes easier to work with, many of those breweries also are OK with some haze. Wasn't trying to suggest they are all doing the same thing, just that many similar attributes unite them. Clearly there are also plenty of hoppy beers in New England that don't fit that mold!
Next time I'd probably swap out the corn for wheat or oats. It is fine as is, but the mouthfeel could be even a little more substantial.
Here is Kai's experiment with cold water sparging.
Mike - are you utilizing your HopRocket any more? Seems like these NE IPAs are over-the-top abundant in hop aroma. Locking in some of those hop volatiles seems like a necessity.
ReplyDeletethx
After brewing a Pilsner with the HopRocket and no dry hops, I determined I really wasn't getting much character from it. The idea is great, but the results are less than compelling. I've found my results are as good or better moving hop-back additions to hop-stand or dry hopping. Much easier not dealing with it too! Very few breweries use hop-backs.
ReplyDeleteMike,
ReplyDeleteI see you brewed on 5-24-15 and kegged on 6-4-15. At what point did you start drinking this? At the time of kegging were the flavors where you wanted them besides the dry hop addition in the keg?
I've been brewing for 3 years and recently started kegging and making my own recipes. I'm making beers I like over commercial beers but still not sure about process...especially turn around time. The last couple APA's I was drinking around 10 to 12 days from brew day (no keg hops).
These "rebalanced" hoppy beers seem to get their bitterness from a raw hop character as opposed to isomerization. Due to this I feel like I'm chasing the hop flavor when drinking these. Too old and flavors drop out...too young and they are a little sharp. There is a small window when they have peaked. Do you find this also?
I was hustling to keg it before I left for National Homebrewers in San Diego. I started drinking it around 6/14 when I got home. I had a good four weeks with it from there. It's started falling off in the last week or so. Still damn good, but not as lively and juicy as it was before. Despite my 10 gallon capacity, I'd never brew 10 gallons of hoppy beer at once, it'd be dead by the time the second keg went on!
ReplyDeleteRegarding the idea above using wine yeast: why not a mixed QA23/Brett C or WLP648 primary? Adding killer yeast to something with a bunch of suspended susceptible ale yeast sounds like a good way to get autolysis flavors, but I've never tried it. Brett won't die, and can take up the maltriose slack. Lots of hop glycosides presumably would get cleaved, but who knows what the mouthfeel, etc will be like. I think it's a worthy experiment.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a good idea! My BM45 fermented Flemish red I had some weird off-flavors for awhile that I attributed to the killer yeast offing the susceptible brewer's yeast in the souring blend.
ReplyDeleteBrewed this recipe on Friday. I have never added hops to a keg before, but I really want to try it. Do you recommend a specific type of bag to use? Also, do you do anything special to sanitize the bag. Lastly, do you just through the bag in or do you secure it in place any way to keep it away from the dip tube. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteI use new nylon knee high stockings. They are fine enough that they won't let much particulate out. I put in a cup of glass marbles, and tie them off at the bottom. I steam the whole thing to sanitize it. Once it cools down enough to handle, I add the hops in and tie off the top. Then I tie the top to the knot above the marbles (making a loop of hops). I just drop it into the keg, purge with CO2, and then rack the beer in.
ReplyDeleteBest of luck!
Do you leave the dry hop in the keg for the drinking duration, or pull them after a couple weeks? And if you leave them in for the duration, how long till you kick the keg?
ReplyDeleteStill drinking this batch (about 8 weeks since I kegged), and the hops are still in there!
ReplyDeleteJust tapped a beer inspired by this. I did Pearl malt with about 7% Oat Malt and 7% golden naked oats to 1.055. .75 Simcoe to bitter, then 1.25 Simcoe and 2 oz of Galaxy at flame out. Pitched Gigayeast Conan. Dry hopped with 2 oz each of simcoe and Galaxy. I also balanced the chloride/sulfate to be about even.
ReplyDeleteIt needs a few more days to settle, but the flavors are round and juicy, it feels thick but not filling. I am definitely a fan. I have also used London III in similar situations and will again.
Glad to hear! My next batch in this line will have a few pounds of oat malt.
DeleteLove the sound ofthis recipe! Looking to try this recipe with flaked oat instead of corn, or would you recommend the oat malt as you suggested. I see your sulfate/ Chloride, could you tell me approx where I should be with the residual alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium and Sodium? Thank You, Jason
ReplyDeleteEither flaked oats or oat malt could work for a more substantial body. Flaked oats will add more haze, which isn't necessarily an issue, but could turn it murky given the already hazy appearance.
DeleteNo reason to add any extra magnesium, carbonate, or sodium. The lower the better, especially the last two. You'll likely have plenty of calcium (over 50 PPM) from the gypsum and CaCl additions. You may need to adjust the acid additions to hit the target pH depending on your exact mineral profile.
Good luck!
I have been reading the "soft and pillowy mouthfeel" thread in hombrew talk. Very interesting read regarding chloride/sulfate ratios, mash/kettle/final ph and adjuncts. I saw some of your posts, Interested to see what you took away from it. You didn't experience any minerally tastes with this ratio? Have you tried any of the 120 CL / 70 So4 ratios yet or higher Ca values to compare. Also wondering what PPG & Lovi values you had for the flour addition. I couldn't find much info. Great posts, keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteThe total amounts are so low compared to something like Burton-on-Trent, no minerally taste to my palate. The actual amounts are far more important than the ratio. The malt also provides 100s of PPM of the same minerals as well, so subtle changes likely wouldn't be noticeable.
DeleteThe flour is close to pure starch with around 10% protein, so it should be around 1.040 PPG. Around 1-2 SRM. There is so little of it the exact numbers aren't hugely consequential.
Cheers!
This is an awesome read!
ReplyDeleteCurious if the purpose of the Acidulated malt is to add a sourness? I'm asking since my LBS doesn't carry it and i'm wonder if i can substitute something - trying to understand the purpose in order to got down this path.
Thanks!
Tom
My water (DC) is moderately high in carbonate. Carbonate raises the pH. Despite the dilution with distilled water and additions of calcium salts, I need a bit of extra acid to get the pH to where I want it. At a minimum I'd plug your local water into a pH calculator and figure out how much acid (phosphoric or lactic) you need to get a mash pH around 5.3. Ideally you'd have a pH meter and add acid as needed.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to match your water profile, but the additions you mention don't necessarily apply to me. Could you post the profile result after your additions given your source?
ReplyDeleteInterested when you'll be doing a write on the Softer & Juicer IPA, I can't wait to hear about it.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly why I don't publish my target water, I don't think it is something that should be copied (because it is less than ideal because of my tap water). Happy to give you my ideal water for something like this though: 75-125 PPM calcium, 150-175 PPM sulfate, 100-125 PPM chloride, 5-15 PPM magnesium, <20 PPM sodium, and <50 PPM carbonate. If you have more sodium or carbonate than that, I'd dilute with RO/distilled to get it down close to there, but there is no reason to add salts to raise either even if you are at zero! Don't worry about a few dozen points in either direction though as many of these minerals will also be contributed in various amounts by the malt. Also you should be measuring the pH and adding acid as needed to reach the target pH, rather than relying on my amounts! Best of luck!
ReplyDeleteWhat's the reason for kegging with whole cone versus using pellets like you did with the first dry hop? I just brewed this and I'll be kegging soon and I was wondering if I should make a trip back to the home brew store to grab whole cones since I bought pellets of Simcoe instead.
ReplyDeleteI find that pellets have a greater likelihood of become over-extracted than whole hops with extended contact. You might want to tie off the bag so it doesn't remain in contact with the beer the entire time the beer is in the keg (that's what I did for my most recent variation on this one).
ReplyDeleteThanks for including the end results of your water adjustments and your ideal water profile. I am really new in AG brewing and just getting into adjusting my water for different styles so getting a frame of reference for water make-up in recipes is very helpful.
ReplyDeleteIf you were to replace the corn and flour with flaked wheat would you keep it at at ~10% of the grist?
Cheers! 10% flaked wheat would be a fine addition to a hoppy beer.
ReplyDeleteIn my experiences, 1318 has a notoriously foamy krausen even after all of fermentation is complete. How did you add your hops and get them in contact with the beer and no just the krausen before primary was finished without disturbing it?
ReplyDeleteAgreed! No worries about disturbing the krausen (it doesn't really "do" anything). I simply dumped the pellets directly in during the tail end of fermentation. Like most IPAs, I had a second addition of dry hops in the keg. Pellets or weighted/bagged whole hops should sink below the krausen without issue.
ReplyDeleteMike love all your information on brewing it's very helpful and informative.I have been reading more and more about sulfate to chloride ratio and In Palmer's book he talks about a 2 to 1 ratio but I noticed in your water profile shows a much closer to a 1 to 1 ratio have you experienced this to make your beard seem more palatable
DeleteHi, where you're trying for a hazy brew is the whirfloc adding anything? I've been leaving it out lately, beside making my beer more clear is there a benefit that I'm missing out on?
ReplyDeleteI don't think ratio of sulfate to chloride is a useful concept, the total amounts are what is salient. It just depends what sort of balance you want for the beer. There isn't a "correct" answer.
ReplyDeleteFor kettle finings it is about your process/equipment. Whirlfloc really isn't that helpful for improving clarity, it is more beneficial for leaving trub behind in the kettle rather than transferring it to your fermentor. If you aren't whirlpooling, settling, and drawing off there really isn't a benefit to it (in my opinion)!
What's your opinion on how to carbonate the keg? Do you set and forget, or are you starting high for a few days and then dropping it down to serving pressure? Also, does having the hops in there make a difference as to how you should carb it?
ReplyDeleteIf I'm not keg hopping, I'll chill/pressurize and then shake to give it a head start. I have multiple kegs on the same regulator, so usually I don't mess with the pressure. You can certainly up the pressure at the start to speed things up, but many beers benefit from a week or two of cold conditioning before serving!
ReplyDeleteLooks like a great recipe! Unfortunately I don't have access to liquid yeast. What dry yeast is best for this style? S-04?
ReplyDeleteI haven't tried any dried yeasts with this type of IPA, but S-04 is getting some interest. If you give it a shot, let me know how it turns out!
ReplyDeleteI just brewed this with s-04, will definitely report back with how it turns out! I subbed mosaic for the galaxy but otherwise it should be the same.
ReplyDeleteHow did this turn out?
DeleteSorry, follow-up question! I'm going to brew a more "session" version of Congress St from Trillium, who kindly provides:
ReplyDeleteMALT: American 2-row Barley, White Wheat, C-15, Dextrine, Dextrose
I'm thinking of dropping the dextrose, and doing something like: 80% 2-row, 10% wheat, 5% c-15, 5% carapils. However, I love the fluffy head your beer provides, which I haven't seen from using malted wheat alone. I was curious if using the flour helped with this, or would it be redundant with my grain bill (already utilizing 10% wheat)?
Possible bonus question, as both an apparent experienced session + east coast IPA brewer! What would your session strength east-coast IPA grain bill look like?
As the post notes, there are some sources that suggest that flour is an especially good choice if your goal is to improve the head of your beer. Malted wheat, CaraPils, and hops will help too, so it may not be strictly required though!
ReplyDeleteIt depends how session-strength you want to go. Below 1.045 I'd start adding Vienna and/or Maris Otter with the American base malt to enhance the maltiness. 5% pale crystal certainly wouldn't hurt either (I'm a CaraVienna fan). Above 1.045, I'd probably keep it pretty similar to the recipe here(minus the corn), with protein from wheat or oats helping to enhance the body. I'd also mash hotter the lower the OG was going to be.
Best of luck!
When you say everything is doubled? You put 20 oz total of hops in this?
ReplyDeleteMike
Great recipe and description. I am going to give this a try, however I do not have any kegs and only do bottles currently.
ReplyDeleteIs there anything I should change given that?
Also, as the yeast is a very active strain, is there a need for the additional nutrient do you think?
Cheers!
Mike
The recipe is scaled to brew as is. The mash/water/minerals were double what is listed, but the hops were for this portion of the batch only.
ReplyDeleteYou'll just want to add the second dose of dry hops to the fermentor after fermentation finishes (or even combined with the late-fermentation dose). Sadly it is almost impossible to get an IPA super-fresh without kegging (this will give you your best shot though). Be as careful as you can about air exposure, and store them cold as soon as they are carbonated and cleaned up.
You can certainly skip the nutrient, I do it out of habit, but with proper pitching rates, aeration etc. it shouldn't be an issue! Although it may be a good idea if you are using all RO/distilled just to ensure there are trace minerals. Also a good idea if you repitch your yeast more than a couple times.
I have just started brewing this style of beer with s-04. Initial results are promising. Extremely murky beer, hop/yeast boundary blurring.
ReplyDeleteI ferment at 16 degs C as I find this yeast disgusting 18 or higher.
I will say that if ever you brew a very light hoppy pale (6-6.5 EBC) then murkiness makes it look lovely. Clarity and it literally looks like urine.
I notice you didnt cold-crash before you kegged? Was that intentional? Does it make any difference?
ReplyDeleteI just came here to say I've read this article 5-6 times and taken something different away each time. Thanks for posting this!
ReplyDeleteI'm on my third iteration of house pale ale, Nelson, Centennial, Galaxy (3-1-1)
I avoid crashing too long or too cold for a hoppy beer like this. It sits on tap at about 40F while it carbonates for a week, that's all it needs in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteSounds like a wonderful hop combo! Gearing up for another riff on this to serve at Club Night at NHC, Citra/Simcoe/Mosaic..!
Azacca:Mosaic 1:1 seems to work extremely well. Both seem to amplify each other.
ReplyDeleteThis looks great! For us extract or mini-mash brewers, do you have an equivalent for a 5 gallon batch?
ReplyDeleteCould you offer any help on this recipe for a 5 gallon extract recipe?
ReplyDeleteI was thinking 7 LB light DME in place of 2 row, and keeping everything else similar. Would steep the specialty grains and adjuncts.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated!
Any advise for an extract brewer on this recipe?
ReplyDeleteI was think 6.5 # light DME for the 2 row. Steeping the adjuncts and specialty grains for 30 min. @ 150, and keeping the hop profile the same.
Any info would be awesome!
Sure, just mini-mash the rest of the grain bill with as much pale malt as you can handle. You really need a few pounds of enzymatic malt in there, or all you'll be getting is starch from the corn/carapils.
ReplyDeleteYou could make a fine NE IPA with a blend of wheat and pale extract if you'd rather go that route. If you partial boil, you'd also want to up the hopping to compensate for lower utilization.
Forgive my ignorance as I am a very new homebrewer, but my question is about the mash and boil. Did you mash for 30mins and boil for 60mins? Or vice versa? Also, what temp did you boil and mash at? This NE style IPA is exactly what I am looking to brew, just want to make sure I have the temps right. Thanks in advance!
ReplyDeleteAlso, if I wanted to do a 10 gal batch, would it simply be just doubling the recipe?
30 minute mash at 154F with a 90 minute boil.
ReplyDeleteYep, double away (approximately accounting for your efficiency, boil-off rate, losses etc.)
I am also new to homebrewing but I do mini-mash 5gal batches (soon up to 15 all grain with my new Spike equip.) Since I do mini-mash, would I sub out the 2 row for maybe 3 lbs of extra pale LME? Working off one kettle at the moment so may BIAB it
ReplyDeleteSure you could sub out most of the 2-row for extract. You'd want to leave a couple pounds to contribute the enzymes to convert the starches from the adjuncts and specialty malts. The exact amount of extract you'd need to hit the target gravity would depend on your efficiency (you can measure your gravity after the mini-mash and use brewing software to figure out the exact amount). Best of luck!
ReplyDeleteHi Mike. Long time listener, first time caller. What issues might I run into if I used fresh hops in this recipe? Any ideas?
ReplyDeleteSo long as you scale up the hop additions (4-5X) to get the same aromatic/bittering punch, no major problems that I can see. The grassiness of the fresh hops will be a bit different, but it should be interesting! I'd likely skip the keg hops and just add all the dry hops together. Given the distance between New England and Pacific Northwest I haven't tasted a fresh-hopped NEIPA, but it should work (let me know if it does!).
ReplyDeleteI'm only getting 2-3 pounds of hops (Cascade), so maybe I don't quite have enough (my math says 5-6x the dried hops in your recipe is somewhere between 4 and 5 pounds). I imagine I could supplement with some dried hop pellets. Maybe I can add pellets to the boil as prescribed in your recipe, and replace the 6 oz. of dry hopping with the fresh Cascade? Thanks for your advice!
ReplyDeleteI haven't had much success with fresh hops, but that seems reasonable. Cascade tends to have lower oils and lower aroma-impact that Galaxy and Simcoe too ounce-for-ounce. It'll be good, but very different!
ReplyDeleteWhat did you aim for in terms of CO2 volumes for serving on this? Any change to affect mouthfeel?
ReplyDeleteI serve most of my beers ~12 PSI at 40F, so 2.5 volumes.
ReplyDeletecan you explain the all purpose flour? I dont get it
ReplyDeleteThe addition of flour is explained in the post (head retention).
ReplyDeleteMichael,
ReplyDeleteFirst, thank you for producing such wonderful content over the years. This site and your book are my favorite/go-to resources.
A question regarding your process here.. Do you take any special measures to prevent oxygen contact when adding the primary dry hops?..The c02 layer from fermentation enough to protect it..or do you c02 purge your primary after the addition?
Thanks!
One big advantage of dry hopping during active fermentation is that yeast love oxygen and will use any introduced at this stage. As a result you don't need to do anything special. For the keg hops on the other hand, I put them into the keg before purging.
ReplyDeleteDid the beer stay cloudy? I have tried this style before and it clears up quite a bit over time.
ReplyDeleteI can tell you for sure that the heavy hazzyness is due to the amount of flour you put in and the amount of dry hop!
ReplyDeleteI drink kegs of hoppy beers pretty quickly, this one didn't really clear before it kicked a month later. There really isn't a convincing explanation for what causes the haze in NEIPAs.
ReplyDeleteThe protein from the flour in the mash certainly doesn't help clarity, but I've added it to other styles without getting nearly this level of haze. Same with dry hopping, if you wait until after fermentation (as I did for years with West Coast IPAs) they won't haze up this much.
Hey what's the deal with kegging after 10 days? I've always thought you should wait about 3 weeks. If I could brew and then bottle 10 days later that would be a game changer. Can you please explain this to me?
ReplyDeleteIf you pitch enough healthy yeast, fermentation should only take 3-4 days for most beers. Another week for the yeast to clean up is plenty for a hoppy beer. One advantage of kegging is that as the beer clarifies during force carbonation yeast drops out, and is then pulled out in the first pint or two. When I bottled, I tended to wait a little longer, but it depended on the yeast. Generally I'm not in a hurry now because I only bottle strong and sour beers.
ReplyDeleteHey man, planning on brewing this on Friday. I generally bottle rather than kegging. When would you put in the keg hops in this instance?
ReplyDeleteApologies, this one was caught in the spam filter!
ReplyDeleteThere isn't a great substitute for keg hops unless you have a way to put the hops into another fermentor, CO2 purge, and then transfer the fully-fermented beer onto them prior to bottling. You could certainly up the initial dry hop addition if you would like, but the effect won't be the same.
I gave up bottling hoppy beers years ago, there just isn't a substitute for the time savings and oxidation reducing powers of a keg!
Not sure exactly what the question is asking. I added phosphoric acid to the mash to improve enzymatic activity and set up the boil and fermentations for their optima. I additionally soured a portion of the wort for a sour beer.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any advice on combining a kettle sour method with a NEIPA? I'm trying to produce a tart and juicy IPA (similar to Epic Tart and Juicy or Lagunitas Aunt Sally). I want to use use similar technique for a base beer that resembles the NEIPA--grain bill of mostly pale 2 row and flaked wheat/oats and some lactose. Planning a kettle sour with yogurt culture (this has lead to some unique creaminess in the past) and boiling with a heavy dry hop and whirlpool addition totaling 4lb/bbl (citra, simcoe, el dorado). I have some concerns the dry hop and the lacto will clash. Any advice on achieving a harmonious balance?
ReplyDeleteMy article on hoppy sours from December's BYO (available on their website for free) has a couple options for brewing something hoppy and sour. For a tart NEIPA-ish beer, I'd follow a path similar to #2. You could ferment with a more traditional strain than the Brett I used, but the rest should be good to go!
ReplyDeleteHey Mike! Quick question - is there a specific reason as to why you let your wort chill at 62F for 5 hours prior to pitching your yeast? Just curious, I'm normally ready to get it done once I get to that step so I just pitch as soon as I'm in the neighborhood of 65F. Thanks for your help, love your blog man!
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned, I didn't have enough ice to chill into the mid-60s before moving to the fermentor (as I would have liked). A few hours isn't enough to get it to 62, and once fermentation kicks in it'll warm it as well. Likely would have been fine pitching at 72F, but pretty easy to pitch later too. I hold my ambient temperature 4-5F below the target fermentation temperature for the first few days to account for that.
ReplyDeleteHi, I haven't seen this question. Do you normally dry hop for 8 days? Haven't dry hopped much myself but have read others do 3-5 days
ReplyDeleteDepends on the beer, what I'm trying to accomplish, and my schedule. Not much really happens after the first few days that wouldn't happen off the hops.
ReplyDeleteHey Mike - Noob here and soaking up as much knowledge as I can (so thanks a ton for what you do). I'm curious about a few things that appear 'different' than a lot of other recipes out there (not that there's anything wrong with that). Just wondering if you could provide some insight?
ReplyDelete1) This seems to have a significantly higher water to grain ratio used for the mash? 12.25 lb of grains with 7.25 gallons of water (right?)? I keep seeing something along the lines of 1.5 quarts per 1 lb of grain - which would be around 4.5 gallons-ish. Definitely get this is as much art as science, but just wondering if there's something to learn here - or if it's just what you've found works.
2) Is there a particular reason for the short mash time - seems like the go to is usually one hour?
3) What is the purpose of boiling for 30 minutes (and then adding the 3/4 gallon top off) - especially if the first hop run doesn't get added until the 60 minute mark?
Again - maybe this is all just practice and skills...but if there's a chance it's some cool science-y or other stuff to learn...color me intrigued.
Thanks again!
1) Water-to-grain is mostly a factor for brew house design. It can have subtle effects on enzyme activity, but shouldn't be a major consideration. Check out the post on my rig for more details on how I brew.
ReplyDelete2) I've moved to shorter mashes over the years. No advantage or reason other than the saved time.
3) As the notes say, I boiled and ran off half the batch for souring. No need to replicate that!
Most of the hot-side stuff is just practical brewing. Working around constraints, not intended to improve the beer.
1) If I replace the corn with flaked wheat, should I keep the flour as well? Seems like it is a big contributor to the haze.
ReplyDelete2) Or would you recommend white wheat malt instead and keep the flour.
3) What about white wheat plus oats, plus flour. For a substantial mouthfeel and head retention... too much?
thanks
I would like to know how much CaCL tô put in a 5 gallon batch, using RO water
ReplyDelete1-1.5 g of CaCl per gallon of finished beer is my standard.
ReplyDeleteHi Mike - just brewed this recipe over the weekend and so far the sight sand smells coming from the carboy are out of this world. Really appreciate the write-up and the responses to others comments - it helped me through the process greatly.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to run something quickly by you to see, from your opinion, how this may positively or adversely affect the beer. I want to avoid the keg hopping based on my brew stores available leaf hop selection. I was hoping to add the 3 oz. Galaxy dry hop on day 3 like your recipe calls, then on day 5 racking to a secondary carboy and dry hopping again (galaxy (2.0 oz), citra (2.0 oz), and columbus (1.50 oz)). Let it condition for a week and then keg. How should this approach fair?
Cheers! Just tapped my latest version: 85% pale, 15% oats, loads of Galaxy and Vic Secret, fermented with S-04. It had pellet keg hops, interested to see how it holds up, but after two weeks in the keg it is drinking nicely! I wouldn't rack a hoppy beer without thorough CO2-purging of any vessel it touched. NEIPAs tend to be very sensitive to oxidation, even more so than standard IPAs. I've seen several turn ugly shades of gray/brown after just a couple days after growler-type fills. Best of luck!
ReplyDeleteHow did the s04 compare to the 1318? And which hop variety/combos did you prefer?
ReplyDeleteI've been searching for that juicy yet full bodied flavor and just can't get there. I've had great success with the aroma by whirlpooling and dry hopping, but just can't get the body to match the nose! Being a D.C. local, have you been out to aslin and tried some of theirs? They're putting on a good show. Anyway, I wonder if it's a matter of getting my water just right; along with the other stuff too of course! ;)
I saw you posted your targets in the comments, but do you have any suggestions on really cranking up the juiciness and body? Citric acid instead of lactic or others? Boosting the sulfate? Would love your advice!
I prefered the yeast and hop character of this batch (whether that was a result of ingredients or technique I can't say), although the newer iteration had better body.
ReplyDeleteI just wish Aslin's beers were more dialed in. A friend just brought over four different cans and the aroma was fantastic on three of them, but by the time they were passed around people were pouring what looked like trub. The dump bucket had a half inch of crud when I emptied it the next morning. I have confidence they'll sort it out, but it is difficult to remove particulate without disrupting the character if you don't have a centrifuge.
I think hoppy beers are about process, dialing in what works for your system and palate. Sourcing the best hops, minimizing oxygen exposure, dialing in yeast treatment etc. If I knew the magic sauce, I wouldn't keep it to myself! After tasting Scott's split batch with cryo from YCH vs. pellets, I think hop products are going to be gaining popularity with homebrewers as they have with craft breweries.
Thanks for sharing Scott's post, very interesting read! I know those guys use quite a bit of lupulin and I was starting to think that's where the ripe juicy flavors are coming from. I even tried to get my hands on some, but to no avail. However, it's interesting to read about Scott's findings. In particular, mentioning how the pellets produced more of a juicy flavor. Can't wait to try a combo batch and see how that compares!
ReplyDeleteBut back to water, it was curious seeing him use a higher chloride to sulfate ratio. I'd been shooting for the opposite ratio in attempts to achieve a juicy and hoppy body. I get personal preference, but what does science tell us about the ratios and perceived sweetness and hop flavors?
Chloride helps produce the soft body and doesn't disrupt the smooth moderate-bitterness that most of these beers display. I'm usually around 150 ppm chloride and 100 ppm sulfate. The next BYO article I have due covers water profile, including having one of my finished NEIPAs analyzed by Ward Labs to see how it compares to the water I brewed it with.
ReplyDeleteFantastic! I can't wait to read it! Just to clarify though, in reading your comments above regarding your targets, it seemed as though they were higher in sulfates as opposed to chloride?
ReplyDeleteEither way, thanks for the continued experiments, documentation, instruction, and in turn, motivation. Your blog has been so instrumental in my brewing success!
My targets and methods change with time, experience etc. Always the risk with a blog, it's a snapshot.
ReplyDeleteWhat hops do you recommend for bittering if I don't have magnums? I saw you used 1.3 oz of them.
ReplyDeleteAny high alpha hop to achieve the same IBUs would be fine.
ReplyDeleteHi Mike, i tasted this beer before kegging and it was fine. Added the keg hops (Simcoe pellets). Now 5 days later I tasted and it became really disgusting. The aroma is still amazing, but the flavour is completely off. Almost salty, like sea water. Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteMight just be hop particulate in suspension? NEIPA often need a couple weeks to mellow, although I wouldn't describe the flavor as salty.
ReplyDeleteYou were right Mike. I left the beer in the keg. Now 2,5 weeks later it tastes pretty good. Thanks.
ReplyDelete